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> Bill's Blog > Posts > Church wide assembly and gays and lesbians

8/24/2009

Church wide assembly and gays and lesbians
Our church has just recently met in assembly, and many decisions were made.  We decided to enter into a full-communion agreement with the United Methodists.  We approved a social statement on human sexuality.  We committed our church to addressing malaria and AIDS.  The subject that created the most controversy centered on whether congregations could, if they chose, call men and women who are homosexual and are in a monogamous relationship to be pastors of their congregations.  The decision was "yes" they could.  The issue really wasn't will the ELCA ordain gay people who are practicing their sexuality.  The issue was whether individual congregations could make that choice.  Honestly, they have been making that choice already.  Such choosing put the national church in an awkard spot.  They were required to discipline the individual congregation, something that almost no one wanted to do.  Now they won't have to discipline these congregations.  And what's more, gays and lesbians who are in a relationship won't have to hide what is happening in their lives.  Such hiding, it seems to me, harms not only the people who are doing the hiding, but the rest of us.  The whole "Prohibition" approach to this subject has driven many things underground.  And in my perspective that is not healthy for any one.  There is no doubt but that some people find this decision deeply troublesome.  Some of these folks are those who think the Bible is quite clear about homosexual practice.  And many of them, from my view, are folks who simply are troubled that the world seems to be changing so much.  This decision threatens the world as we have known it, a world that seemed quite orderly.  This makes the world seem less orderly.  I understand this reaction.  The older I get the more I find myself feeling this way about so many things.  The world as I knew it and that I helped to create is changing so dramatically.  This threatens my understanding of the world and most importantly my place in it.  Decisions like the one that took place at the Church wide assembly can threaten some people's self-justification schemes, the means by which we make ourselves feel worthwhile.  "At least I am not gay" some folks have been able to say throughout their lives.  Such "at least" statements make me feel better about myself and my place in the world.  Now that scheme may be threatened.  Now this is not to say that those who oppose what happened at the CWA are self-preoccupied slobs.  Not at all.  But it is to say that sometimes our reactions are shaped by what drives our sense of worth and purpose in life.  What do you all think?
Posted at 5:26 PM by System Account | Permalink | Email this Post | Comments (6)

Comments

Re: Church wide assembly and gays and lesbians

While I understand the decision and the issue, I question so many things that lead to these things needing to be debated. I love the ELCA because of their open mindeness.

One of my favorite images is Jesus sitting on his rock, teaching about humility, love and respect for our each other and our Creator. I have long struggled with the way Christianity has morphed into that which Jesus stood against. He spoke of the issues with the Pharisees, overturning a table at the temple, opposing too many rules confusing what faith was all about. That is what makes me a believer, that He questioned the leaders and the church at the time. It wasn't about what was popular or politically correct but was about what was right in God's eyes. I always struggled with the WWJD movement. Because people have their own opinions of WWJD and instead of truly asking WWJD, they put their own "spin" on it to justify their own prejudices.

We are with sin. Always will be. There is no denying it. We don't dress right, we don't think right, we don't act right. We just do the best we can to get through life and pray that God will accept us for who we are. We can try to be pure, we can take our anti-depressents and drink when no one is looking and pretend to be perfect. All the while the pressures of perfectness drive us mad. Whether we are gay, straight, single, alone, sad, afraid, angry, stressed and so on. But when we finally admit to who we are, only then can we can move forward. Living a lie kills, living the truth hurts. How can one minister if they are dead. But here is the thing. If one knows pain, has hit the bottom, knows the struggles. Ah, what a friend you have to trust. And anyone who doesn't believe that being gay takes you to the bottom, doesn't know anyone gay.

So with that, I applaud leaders who admit to not having all the answers, but are to determined to be like Jesus. Sitting on a rock, teaching, loving, living. Yes, protect the innocent, ensure the children are safe, but don't judge. The Teacher doesn't, what gives us the right?
at 8/24/2009 6:08 PM

Re: Church wide assembly and gays and lesbians

I think it is true that, for many, this change is a threat to their understanding of their place in the world.  This is especially true for those who have always been told, explicitly or implicitly, that homosexuality is wrong.  We are shaped by our upbringing and the environment in which we live.  Further, if a person has never encountered a gay person, such attitudes can be even harder to change.

I think people are also threatened by that which they do not understand.  There are a lot of misunderstandings about homosexuality.  And again, if a person has never been around gay people, this misunderstaning is never challenged.

But when we meet people who are gay, and work at really getting to know them, I think attitudes can change.  We can see them for who they truly are, people created by and loved by God.  Then I think our reasons for avoiding or excluding them start to go away.

That's not to say it will be easy.  I pray for openness and humility within the ELCA as the conversation continues.
at 8/27/2009 11:05 AM

Re: Church wide assembly and gays and lesbians

Very insightful comment.
at 8/27/2009 9:51 PM

Re: Church wide assembly and gays and lesbians

 First of all I am very glad to see our joining together with our brothers and sisters in the United Methodist, this would seem to be a right move towards being one family in Jesus, which I hope is truly a dream/goal of all Christians, for I believe we will be spending eternity in some way or another in each others company, and eternity starts here and now. As for the homosexual issue adopted by the ELCA, I do have some mixed feelings that are still being internalized; however I never feel it a good idea to "judge" anyone on the basis of one's difference-of-preference than my own. I may not make similiar choices, but I wholey support freedom of choice that does not bring harm to another. In context with the statement that for some this type of decision may threaten the "orderliness" of the world, I feel this may not be such a bad thing after all. For looking back at human history, it appears that orderliness is oft times the result of one group of people trying to control or conform other people into an opinion of what the perfect life should be. From the Pharisees to the King of England (in our American history) to the Nazi's, and so many more unnamed examples, there have always been people trying to form others into their "place" in the world. I am not all to certain of my place in the world anyhow, orderly or not. Infact, personally, I ponder the idea of a little less order, a little more freedom, and then perhaps many of us rather than doing nothing while waiting around to be told what to do, would feel free enough to follow our deepest desires and pursue our own good dreams; dreams and hopes that just may be planted in our hearts by God. Thereby not only making us more beneficial to ourselves and our community, but also more joyfully pursuiant of lives God has given us to "live to the full".  This may sound a bit anarchist to some, but that is surely not what I am about, rather I am speaking here of the freedom to pursue God given liberties for the betterment of self and society. For a person to live life to the full as Jesus intends, one must grasp the freedom to be fully the person Jesus wants us to become, without fear of failure or ridicule or punishment.
 (ofcourse these may just be the rambling reflections of a "disorderly" person!!!)
at 8/27/2009 10:51 PM

Re: Church wide assembly and gays and lesbians

I can't say that I am not without some ambivalence when it comes to this subject.  I think the church wide assembly made the right decision.  But I have to admit that I worry about our world.  I worry about the kind of world are having to make decisions in.  Some of my worries are related to the "change of world" talk in the original post.  I worry these days when I hear very young people speak of themselves and their friends as being homosexual, bisexual, or however they may label themselves.  I think Hollywood has made this subject such a trivial matter.  I don't know how 14 year olds know that they are bisexual, something that some of them are saying these days.  They can throw terms like these around because in some corners sexual identity matters are so calvalierly and openly discussed.  I am not sure that this is good.  How can we fully embrace people who are gay and lesbian without making our children think sexual identity is something that they choose like they choose toilet paper at Meijer's.  So I guess what I am saying is that I am a little frightened by the change of world that I am (we are) experiencing.  I certainly don't think that it is all good.  But I still think gays and lesbians should be treated the same dignity with which we are called to treat heterosexuals.
at 8/29/2009 8:04 PM

Thoughts

Although we are taught not to judge, any I try to be open-minded and to recognize the diversity in our population(s), the decision (about allowing gay pastors) makes me wonder:
  *will this decision cause some to leave our congregation because of their individual feelings and beliefs regarding what is written in the Bible about homosexuality?
   *Although values change with time, should we adjust our thinking about what is written to make it conform with what we want?  Or should we use the Bible as our guide and conform to what it says is true?
    *I can only live my life ethically and morally, as Christ taught us to do....and to let others live theirs....but I still wonder if some will leave this church because of a decision made miles away.

Thanks for taking my comment
at 10/18/2009 5:16 PM

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